(Warning this diary entry may be considered long by some people.)

Willey Honda of Bountiful, Utah and I got connected because I sent in a vehicle request through Autobytel for the zipcode 84101 -- the zipcode of the Little America Hotel & Towers in Salt Lake City, which is where the 2000 ACR conference will be held -- and they were the area Autobytel Honda dealership.  The salesperson and sales manager sent me terrific emails -- they are obviously comfortable using email -- and I was hoping that we could collaborate with me on an exciting Internet vehicle purchase and sale.  Alas, a dark emerald pearl 2001 Odyssey LX was not expected to be available for me by the time I was out there; the sales manager did ask me if I was flexible on color.  I did mention that I would consider silver (the new silver is supposed to be a real silver, not a grayish color which is how the current "canyon stone silver" colored Odyssey appears to me), however, Amy wants dark emerald pearl.  You might note that I asked about an LX model, not an EX model; at the time of my inquiry, I was pretty confident that we were going to get an LX version of the Odyssey.  I believe that the EX tends to take longer to get than the LX.  In retrospect, it is fair to assume that a dark emerald pearl EX model would not be available to me by October 22 as I suspect the sales manager would have also asked whether I was flexible in which model we would take.  I was a tad disappointed as I believe that purchasing my vehicle from a dealership in Utah -- with an assist from the Internet and Autobytel -- and carrying out some wireless Web research while driving back home would have resulted in some fascinating discovery, a great time and a statement that would have an impact on the way that new automobiles are sold and distributed.

I also considered purchasing my vehicle from some Boston area dealerships. Clair Motors was very accommodating in coming out to my house and offering me test drives of the Mercedes Benz ML 320 and the Toyota Sienna (see June 30 and July 10).  I connected directly to the Clair Honda dealership and they could not offer me a test drive of an Odyssey because they told me that none were retained for test drives.  In addition, their "Internet Sales" person (and "Autobytel Sales Manager" as I found out later after sending in an a request via Autobytel) informed me that their price for the Odyssey was MSRP and that delivery of an LX would likely occur in 2-3 months after placing an order and that delivery of an EX would likely occur in 4-5 months after placing an order (I was given this information in mid July).  The Clair salesperson was polite and candid about their situation with the Odyssey (i.e., the delivery time frames, price, etc.). 

There was one little thing that bothered me a little about the Clair Honda salesperson.  After emailing directly with Clair's Honda Internet salesperson, I sent in an Odyssey quote request via Autobytel to explore an alternative source for purchasing the vehicle -- this exercise was absolutely in my best interest.  When I received a call from Clair Honda's Internet salesperson in response to my Autobytel quote request, I learned that Clair Honda was the Autobytel Honda dealership contact in my area.  I was pleased to learn this as I believe that Autobytel attempts to forge relationships with the best dealers in an area -- of course, the term "best" is always relative :-).  I did not like, however, the tone of the salesperson's message to me.  In his telephone message, he started off by saying that he did not know why I had contacted Clair via Autobytel in a way that communicated slightly that he was annoyed that  I would consider purchasing from another source.  In the remainder of his message, he provided the same information that I had received from him before and he sent me an email containing the same information that he had emailed to me before. 

An interesting and, perhaps, foretelling reaction that I had to Clair Honda's Odyssey purchase specifications was that "I am sure that I can do better than a wait of 4-5 months for an EX model."  Andrew -- again, the Mercedes Benz guru -- emailed me the other day after learning of my/our purchase decision and said that "I think you secretly wanted the EX as well, but weren't willing to admit it on a conscious level."  He may indeed be correct as I do not believe that I ever discussed in my diary three other bits of information which bothered me for several months about the LX model and made me hesitant to purchase it:

Issue #1 -- The seats
The LX model lacks lumbar support in the seats and when I test drove a friends' 2000 Odyssey LX, I did not find the seats very comfortable for my back -- by the way, both owners of this Odyssey love it and find the seats to be just fine (except for the armrests which they, and I, believe are not of quality that one would expect from Honda).  As I was driving their vehicle, I felt that some lumbar support would have made everything fine and dandy.  I believe it is important to point out that I tend to tilt back a little the seatback when I drive; in addition, when I had the seat in the full upright position -- which is how Amy tends to position the seat -- my back did not bother me at all.  Just one problem, I do not drive with the seat in that position and, being realistic, I am not going to change this pattern of behavior.  I've never sat in an EX model seat, however, I do know that it offers lumbar support and slightly upgraded cloth and therefore I have always believed that the EX model seat would sit well with me.

Other aspects that I like about the EX model seat are that it is power adjustable (the LX is manual) and it has an adjustment for height (although the 2001 LX model seat is rumored to have a manual height adjustment).  I like to sit as high in the seat as is comfortable because I like to see as much of the hood as I can when I drive and I have some old track & field injuries that feel better when I sit high.  The power adjustment is great because Amy and I have very different seating positions; I fully expect to adjust the driver seat nearly every time (from Amy's seat position) that I drive the vehicle and I expect Amy will need to adjust the seat every time when driving it after I have driven it.  Given this, I felt that manual adjustments would get old really fast (but for keeping $2600 in my pocket, I was willing to consider it).  One thing that I love about my Lexus LS400 is the memory seat feature; I do not care who has been sitting in it before me as I can easily get the seat (and mirrors) easily into my preferred position -- I like to be comfortable when I drive a car.

I was having a tough time placing an order for an LX model because on one hand it seemed crazy to get the higher end model and spend $2600 just to get comfortable seats, yet on the other hand it seemed crazy to spend about $25,000+ (the approximate after tax cost of the LX model) and be in it for 5-10 years and not find the seating comfortable every day that I drove it -- though Amy would be the principal driver.  For the record, I did investigate placing EX model seats inside an LX model and I did not believe that, in the end, this would have been cost effective (I apologize to those of you who find it scary that I would even think of and consider doing this).

Issue #2 -- The tires
The cat is out of the bag now on Firestone tires.  This brand is taking an excessive beating over the most recent recall for some of its tires (they should follow Tylenol's approach to addressing a widespread consumer concern) -- the P235/75R15 ATX/ATX II and selected Wilderness AT tires.  Well, the LX model comes with Firestone tires; the EX model comes with Michelin tires.  I've never liked Firestone tires and I would never purchase or use them; this is my personal opinion and I do not doubt that many people prefer or enjoy driving on Firestone tires.  Were I to purchase the LX model, I would have immediately swapped them for either Michelin or Dunlop tires -- my preferred tire brands in most instances.  It bothered me that I would have to pay full sticker price and then spend another $300+ right off the bat for new tires, with no likely willingness from a dealer to do a straight or fair swap.

The Michelin Symmetry model is an ok grade that come standard on the EX and should be tolerable, though I will probably consider switching them to a higher grade Michelin or Dunlop should I find them lacking in some areas (e.g., road noise, handling).  My preference is typically for Z rated tires.

Issue #3 -- Being penny wise and pound foolish
I tend to keep cars for a long time and many miles.  I had a black colored 1981 Datsun 310GX -- which I converted into a Batmobile when the paint faded (but that's another story that can wait for some other day) -- for over seven years; someone stole it if you can believe it (well, my hand painted bat symbols on the doors did look cool).  We had a 1987 Acura Integra RS for over ten years and 100,000 miles.  Our 1989 Mazda 929 is approaching 203,000 miles.  Our 1993 Lexus LS400 has over 75,000 miles on it.  My guess is that we are going to keep the Honda Odyssey for a few years and a few miles.  A difference in price of $2600 between the LX and EX models will likely become meaningless given our likely length of ownership and preferences for certain features on the EX model (e.g., for Amy, the power doors and for me, the seats and alloy wheels -- ok, I'm somewhat vain, but they really can improve a vehicle's driving manners :-) ).

When I purchase a car, I consider my current budget, future financial related conditions and my/our automobile preferences.  I attempt to make a purchase that will deliver maximum satisfaction over the long haul as the various costs associated with purchasing a vehicle that will not deliver satisfaction and, as a result, buying another vehicle again sooner than desired are high for me (this is partly why I buy some products in amounts that will last me for years -- it keeps my shopping costs down);  I consider myself a value shopper and I tend to care for products so that they will last for a long time.  In the back of my mind, I had been wondering whether purchasing the LX model was going to create significant regrets and I did not want to realize any of them. 

In addition, I am not fond of the market conditions and the strong dealer power (and limited consumer power) with respect to the Odyssey  -- I could easily argue both sides (i.e., dealer and consumer) of this issue on a number of thought points, but I'll attempt to keep it brief.  At the present time, in an era when consumers can negotiate and purchase new vehicles at fair prices that are typically close to a dealer's "invoice" price (thanks to organizations like Edmunds.com and Consumer Reports), it is difficult -- at this point in time -- to get the Odyssey for less than MSRP (it is selling for above MSRP in a few geographical markets).  Considering the ease with which one could get a price slightly above that of the invoice and far below that of the MSRP for so many makes and models, it is difficult to pay MSRP for a high production  mainstream -- Soccer Mom no less (for the record, I love Soccer Moms -- got to watch my backside there) -- vehicle.  I seriously considered purchasing the LX model because I wanted to keep as low as possible the already "excessive" profits for a dealer selling a Honda Odyssey.  I often wondered if I would by "cutting off my nose to spite my face" by purchasing an LX model rather than the "down deep" preferred EX model; I have learned and tried to purchase by a philosophy where I do not shortchange myself by saving a relative few dollars in the short run at the expense of significantly greater and desired satisfaction in the long run (being frugal is ok, but being cheap can sometimes lead to some frustrating and suboptimal long run outcomes).

I used the term "excessive" when describing the dealer profit associated with the sale of an Odyssey.  This term is used because of how rare it is that one pays MSRP for a vehicle in this day and age.  Many consumers, including me, have become accustomed to paying a "fair" new vehicle price that offers the seller a "reasonable" markup and profit contribution and the buyer a "reasonable" value.  I am sure that many dealers would argue that consumers are paying "excessively" low prices on certain makes and models; I would agree. 

Some dealers have argued that the MSRP is irrelevant and that the profit contribution generated by the sale of a new Odyssey is not excessive; it could be argued that the market speaks, the MSRP has played an unnecessary psychological role and that the Odyssey is a great value even when priced at MSRP.  The comment about the MSRP may be true, however, the reality is that it exists and that we human beings (have been conditioned to) react to it in certain ways (if one is really curious, a well written and first rate book on pricing that most anyone can read and follow is "The Strategy and Tactics of Pricing : A Guide to Profitable Decision Making " by Tom Nagle and Reed Holden).  I believe that a number of people would agree that the Odyssey is a good value even when purchased at MSRP (e.g., do the following exercise: line up all comparably equipped minivans that one would consider purchasing, evaluate them using all purchase decision factors, compute value based on likely transaction prices -- for many consumers, apparently given its market success, the Odyssey comes out ahead). 

Dealers would argue that Honda has priced the vehicle "correctly" at MSRP and that it is not their fault that people are hung up over MSRP when purchasing a new vehicle; they would also add that their costs are irrelevant and "none of your business."  I can absolutely understand these points.  The reality is that consumers now know invoice prices so dealers have to deal with that, period.  One could further counter by agreeing that the MSRP is irrelevant and all that matters is the dealer cost when a consumer negotiates for a vehicle as this lets the consumer know the starting point for negotiation; a "fair and reasonable" price is one that provides the dealer with a "fair and reasonable" return.  I could understand that point too.  On average, the price paid for a vehicle is likely to be somewhere between the dealer's cost and the consumer's reservation price (the maximum that one would be willing to pay for something).  A variety of market forces contribute to the final transaction price.  Perhaps Honda priced the Odyssey lower to dealers in order to give them a good deal and margin which would offset the lesser deals and margins that they get on other Honda vehicles?  (I have a feeling that some are going to say that I am being too generous and some might argue that this is evidence of inefficiencies in the long standing new automobile distribution system).

In the end,  I -- and many others -- believe that the current system of buying and selling new automobiles is chock full of inefficiencies and that some new models for selling new automobiles have the potential to create better value for both buyers and sellers (e.g., either a direct or a quasi-direct method that does not necessarily take the local auto dealer out of the process, but simply modifies its role and the set of services it offers).  Auto buying processes provided by firms like Autobytel, Greenlight and CarsDirect provide significant evidence that a more efficient and effective process is possible and that consumers prefer a new type of new car buying process.  I believe that auto consumers will need to take a proactive role in bringing about significant change to the current process of distributing and selling new cars -- sitting on the sidelines is not likely going to have much of an impact.  By the way, I am not arguing that manufacturers can be left to their own devices as they have a pretty good track record for not caring enough about and not listening well enough to consumers.  The Internet provides an opportunity to organize, collaborate, communicate and act; the number of consumers doing this has been increasing as more of them get online and connect.  Truckers have unions; automobile workers have unions; baseball players have unions; why don't consumers have unions?  (Apparently existing government agencies are not enough and this is not a slight of government; as I've said for many months, watch for the emergence of online trusted advisors who will represent consumers and help them organize their power to get more of what they really need and want.)

[End of issue discussion :-)]

So, where was I?  Ah yes, discussing other dealerships from which I considered buying an Odyssey.

Another nearby Honda dealership that I considered purchasing from was Herb Chambers (in Boston).  Friends of ours -- the ones who were kind enough to let us test drive their Odyssey -- had purchased their Odyssey LX from them and found the salesperson to be straight forward and decent.  Unfortunately, this was the dealership to which AutoNation had linked me on June 6.  The two trustbusting parts of the potential exchange that occurred when I attempted to purchase an Odyssey back in early June were a) the vehicle listed by VIN (Vehicle Identification Number -- a number that uniquely identifies each motor vehicle) was actually not available for sale to me (in fact, none of the Odysseys listed by VIN as being for sale were actually available for sale to me), and b) the price listed was erroneous due to a data entry error by the dealer (which occurred for about seven other Odysseys listed by VIN as being available for sale at the same time) and the dealership was not willing to honor the listed price or offer a reasonable alternative price.

I don't recall whether I ever mentioned that I had spoken with someone at the corporate office of Herb Chambers about the fact that vehicles unavailable for sale to me (and most everyone else in the world) were listed as being for sale courtesy of AutoNation; well, I did.  Without getting too long winded (go ahead and chuckle if you must), I was satisfied to learn that each vehicle that was listed as being for sale already had been reserved via a deposit by someone else, that AutoNation automatically lists all vehicles that are in or will enter Herb Chambers' inventory, and that Herb Chambers could not get a vehicle unlisted from the AutoNation website until it had been paid for in full by a customer.  To me, this partially absolved Herb Chambers of blame as they truly had, in essence, no control over "pulling" a vehicle from the AutoNation website unless it had been paid for by a customer (for an Odyssey, it is extremely usual for a consumer to put down a deposit and wait for one to arrive at the dealership; also note that a vehicle's VIN is reported to a dealership prior to its delivery and, hence, it can be entered into a dealers database well ahead of its delivery date).  Nevertheless, I could not fully uncouple my feelings about Herb Chambers from those that I had for AutoNation; Herb Chambers was a part of the AutoNation network.

I do not believe, however, that AutoNation.com deserves all of the blame in my experience.  I believe that the dealership was partly at fault of its own devices in my purchase experience that was initiated by the AutoNation.com website; they listed an erroneous price and, personally, I believe that they should have considered stepping up to the plate and either honoring their listed price or offering to rectify the situation by striking a price somewhere between the "actual" and the listed price -- I am a reasonable person (someone on the Edmunds Townhall described a situation where Greenlight.com listed an erroneous price for a Honda Odyssey, but still honored that price).  My guess is that Herb Chambers would have realized an outpouring of trust from me similar to that created by Saturn when they replaced all of those defective vehicles back in the early days of their existence (I don't recall the defect) and I would likely have been buying all of my cars from them for the rest of my life, and I would have spread the good word among my friends and colleagues, and so on, and so on, and so on.  In the end, their error and possibly minor and short term loss, could have turned out to be a huge gain that would have returned to them not only the difference between the actual and the error price, but also much more -- and I do mean cold hard cash.  Sometimes folks do not elect to or have the ability to think through the long term impact of a decision.  I guess that I could have suggested that they modify the price in order to satisfy me, however, I could sense that this was not even going to be considered seriously (and my ability to sense many things is accurate a very high percentage of the time).
 

Luis Castillo RBI Watch (Through August 20, 2000)

Number of Hits......Batting Average......Number of RBI......Runs Scored
......140.......................355............................9........................79

Luis went 1-5 as the Colorado Rockies outslugged the Marlins  13-4 at Coors Field.   He leadoff the first inning by striking out (looking).  In the third inning, with two out and a man on second base, Luis reached base on an infield single.  He leadoff the fifth inning by striking out.  In the seventh inning, with one out and no one on base, he grounded out to the pitcher.  In the ninth inning, with one out and a runner on second base, Luis grounded out again to the pitcher.  (These data are obtained from ESPN.com.)